The Curious Capitalist – Randi McCray

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Businesses and community projects. She is currently the associate director of diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging at the Yale university school of public health, and we are delighted to announce that she is also the newest member of the board here at the conscious business collaborative. Randi, Elinor, welcome to the curious capitalist podcast.

Randi: Thank you.

Uh, welcome. Uh, and you know, it’s women in business. We talk about balance a lot. I’m curious what kinds of, um, Buckets you have, you know, does the concept of balance resonate for you? And how do you think about the different parts that you’re involved with? In your work.

Randi: So that is a first of all, thank you for having me.

And it is a pleasure to be with you once again on yet another journey. As you mentioned, we’ve worked on many different things together. And so this is just the newest thing that we are, where our paths are intersecting. So it is an honor and pleasure and also all the other individuals who I’ve met. Um, in this space who have been so welcoming and warm and curious about what I do.

I think it’s very easy to fall into that, um, habit, if you will, but I think of balance as really paying attention to the other things that also make you whole, um, outside of consuming things or consuming material things. And so for me, what that looks like is definitely traveling. Um, and I have a lot of, um, projects that I explore creatively.

Right. And so for me, that is when the weather is really great. Like now getting outdoors and walking, being outside, um, finding opportunities to pause. Unplugging from the social space and just sitting and reflecting, um, on whatever it is that you want to reflect on. And that can go along with traditional practices of meditation as well as yoga and all those types of things.

Elinor: Music to my ears. Thanks. Uh, and so with that, as background and knowing that work is a part of a, uh, a rich whole. How would you describe this point in your career?

Randi: I describe this point in my career as my second career. And, um, it’s the career that I get to explore now that I’m all grown up, and I did what I had to do to be able to get to do what I want to do.

Um, and to be very skilled at that, um, allowed me a lot of opportunities to grow, um, professionally in that space. But I grew up in New Haven and we didn’t have a lot of resources. I couldn’t go to college right after high school, so I had to work. And so in order for me to get to the space today to do the second thing I wanted to do, I had to Work, you know, get the 401k, you know, get a place to stay, like, get all the things that help us thrive.

And so, um, I ended up working with a lot of organizations at the, at the very macro level about how that plays out in workplace dynamics. structural inequities and finding ways for them to address that with changes. And so some of that comes by way of first changing people’s lenses by which they see society and then moving into how do we integrate that operationally?

Um, there’s the mountains of inequities are so high. That it takes a long time to chip away at that little by little, and it may take a long time to see the impact of that work.

Elinor: When you were just starting out, did you even know that the type of work you’re doing now existed as a profession or has it really come about as a recent opportunity based on how the business environment has changed?

Randi: So I think it wasn’t solely based on how the business environment has changed. I think what has been happening is it has taken on different forms. And so I think a long time ago, um, people thought about like workplace discrimination. Right. And there would be like, these very overt things, um, around workplace discrimination, right?

And so over, over the, I would say over the last 15 years, what I’ve seen is the conversation evolving more and more and more. And, um, then we started talking more intentionally about race and then the pandemic happened where, um, we all collectively was having an experience, but how we were navigating the same experience definitely was different based on your social location.

And then I think people started to think more intentionally about what the structural disparities look like the structural inequities look like. And then we also had Brianna Taylor, George Floyd, Ahmaud Arbery, like, we were home. We were paying attention. Um, we’ve also had the evolution of social media where these things become much more visible.

So I think it’s just like a confluence of all all types of things coming together to keep growing this this conversation around. What we’ve always known to be there. And then I think there’s also a, a way that it’s been professionalized, right? Like now we have certificate programs, right? People are, when I first went to college, we weren’t even talking about any of these things.

Elinor: Yeah. Yeah. That’s a really good reminder.

If case anyone needs reminding about, um, just because in a concept is, is new to us doesn’t mean it’s, it hasn’t existed before. And I guess that’s part of, um, cultural humility, right. And coming to new ideas with the idea that, um, what, what any of us can unlock at any given time is really only part of the story.

You know, when you’re involved in a lot of things that seem to run counter to humility, and yet it is so important to this, this, um, moment.

Randi: So how do I bring people to the conversation? I think one of the first things I, first of all, I love talking about culture because culture is that deeper level. I think.

We miss a lot when we just talk about these very surface level categories, some that we think we know, some that we can’t know, but we think we can know. Um, like, uh, sexual orientation, we think we know, just based on what someone appears as on the outside, and we could be wrong, right? Um, but, Assuming in general is bad.

And so when I facilitate workshops before we even get to cultural humility. Right, which is a skill building and practice to respond to how culture shows up. We first talk about culture, and you have to create an entry point for everyone who’s in the room, right? So a lot of times people, they’ll mention things like privilege and minute.

You mentioned privilege because what’s been associated with that person’s left the room mentally, right? So I don’t even start there because I need them to be in the room if I want them to get to the cultural humility conversation, right? So culture, we all have it. It all operates for us. And even when we.

And this is an opportunity to understand and get a mirror to see the mirror of our own culture, but also, um, peek into the world of other people. right? And be curious about that, not from a place of judgment, but from a place of curiosity. If you grew up differently than me, let’s talk about how wonderful that is for you.

Not all the judgments or all the negative connotations, but like, tell me what it meant, right? Like, so one of the things that comes up a lot is dinner time or how people practice and exercise their spiritual connection or whatever higher power or the lack thereof. Not everybody grew up with that, right?

That’s cultural humility, right? Understanding that, um, your affect when you’re speaking might be different than mine. Right? And, and that I shouldn’t personalize that I should actually celebrate that as who you are. But if there are ways where our cultures bump up against each other, how would we work together within a space of grace?

We feel different about the people we’ve gotten to know. and build relationship with. It’s hard to other someone you’re in relationship with. It’s really difficult, right? Not just because you have blood connections to your family members, but if we are truly in a relationship that I value, it’s very difficult for me to other you, right?

I have more empathy for you. I approach you differently. So I start with that, like cultivating that relationship that allows us to be together that way. And then we can talk about the hard things. Right. Then we can talk about how conditions in society have shaped our experiences and what that means for both you and I living in those conditions, right?

Elinor: It’s so wise. I just feel so glad to hear your overview and, um, be able to envision people coming into these conversations who may not be seeking them out and, but be able to, you know, stay in them, uh, longer without the usual defenses or resistance that arises because of, um, Because of your, you know, your grace and your approach.

Prejudge that team as not being very diverse. But after your workshop, I, I came away recognizing a lot more richness and distinction, um, and found out a lot about the team members that I never knew before. And it was definitely a strengthening, uh, an eyeopening experience. So tell, tell us about when you, uh, first became introduced to this organization and, and why you decided to step into it.

And so what piqued my interest? I think Gavin was talking about. His book at the time, the first one I attended, um, and I didn’t know, I know you and Glenn, but I didn’t know much about this container and the space that you all been holding. But I think, um, listening to Gavin, I started to understand sort of the underlying principles, um, which I felt.

Um, and then I reached out to you and asked you, you know, if I could join, I didn’t know how you would join. So I just sent you an email and I will say to your point about the diversity from the session. You and I were part of what I’m I’m constantly learning. Um, is, um, own and now have integrated into when I talk about diversity is that diversity aren’t just those big eight categories that we talk about, and we’re missing an opportunity by not exploring diversity even deeper.

That’s what you do. That’s not who you are. Um, and so even when a group looks, um, monolithic on the surface, if you really start talking to people and actually listening, um, you’ll find that there is diversity there as well. And so, um, I wanted to be with those people more. That’s the best way I could, could capture that, right?

You, you all are thinking, because in most conversations, capitalism is either bad or good. Right. We never talked about what’s the way that it could be synergistic. And so this was the first place that even was exploring that as a possible concept of how to do capitalism better and more responsibly. And so I’m curious about that.

Elinor: Wow. Talk about fulfilling my need for meaning and connection and, uh, all of those good, rich things, uh, listening to you is a, is a real joy to take that, that walk back and I’ll just explain for Claire’s benefit and the benefit of anyone listening. The Laquita you mentioned is Laquita Joyner McGraw, who teaches at the University of New Haven, formerly at.

And. Gavin is Gavin Watson, our board chair. He’s going to be giving a talk on his book. Uh, his book is called altruistic business, how conscious businesses outperform the competition. Or is it why conscious businesses outperform the competition in any case, the concepts in the book are really centered around why conscious capitalism works.

So yeah, it’s a, it’s a neat conversation and, um, I get excited to see who’s, who’s attracted to it and, and the different. Lenses they bring. So, um, if a company from, from your perspective, um, if a company wanted to make a shift towards building a more conscious culture, what would your advice be? What are some of the 1st steps

Randi: that’s a big 1?

Um,

Um, so if you want to be conscious about capitalism, you’re going to have to leave behind a lot of the core tenets of capitalism, especially here in the United States. I can’t speak to how it shows up, um, you know, um, more broadly outside of the United States, but I can say here because of the challenging history of how this country was actually constructed, we are living in the remnants of that today.

So we can do some of those things differently, but I don’t believe you can retrofit it into what already exists, particularly here in this country, because what was, what was built in this country was built upon, you know, using free labor. Um, and those folks have been struggling ever since. to find a place where they can thrive as well.

But you can’t, you can’t catch up without, um, looking back and, and doing something different. To you can’t reverse anything, but you can address some of the conditions differently that what you created in the beginning created. And so it would require that how we do it. There’s a lot of different ways.

When I used to work in technology, we had. You know, ways that we would roll out new services, systems or address an issue, right? Um, and it’s like throwing everything in, in, in, in, in the middle of the table, right? And really talking through which might be the best approach that we can prototype. And if that works, we keep building on that prototype.

But if it doesn’t work, we toss it out when we try something different. In this work, when I consult with people, they’re looking for the one right answer. And unfortunately, the problem is too complex to have one right answer. You’re just going to have to explore the problem and try different things until you find what works.

Randi: So belonging was an acronym that many practitioners will say. It’s they’ll they’ll use this catchphrase like it’s what people feel. And we used to call, we used to have these things called employee satisfaction surveys, like where you ask folks like, do you like it here?

And I’d be like, yeah, or no, right? Like, yeah, I don’t know. Maybe. Um, so, but when I think about this, because I was asked this question the other day, here’s what belonging is for me as it applies to this container that we’re holding. Around conscious capitalism. I am a person that knows a little bit of something about some things, right?

Can the person equally contribute and can their voice be seen as equally valuable? If they’re sitting next to the other guy who went to the Ivy League institution and has all of these things, right? Because there’s a way that we believe that you have to only that your contributions only matter if you took that journey.

At the end of the day, if I get the job, I get the position and I’m sitting at the table. Do I feel like I’m just as valuable here as everybody else? Even if I don’t look like everybody else, sound like everybody else, or have what everybody else has. So, there’s a way that people have taken belonging and have oversimplified it.

But at the end of the day, I don’t really feel like. I belong here. And I don’t know if that makes sense to y’all the way it sounds in my head, but that’s what it is in my head.

Elinor: I gotcha. It’s not a warm, fuzzy. It’s more like, is there a path for people’s contributions to really be made, be received in the, in the, Not only that intellectual exchange, but the, um, who’s an organization for, and if we’re all working for this company or this organization or this project, uh, is it really there for us as well?

Is that?

Right? Like, do I really belong here? Right? We’re already internally questioning ourselves because we’re so used to people like us not being welcome to the earth, right? So When I think of belonging, it’s like I got here and I actually feel like I’m valued and I belong here, even though I don’t share your same journey of getting here.

And they’re having a conversation. You may not be able to actively participate because yeah, you’re at the table, but whatever’s happening at the table, you can’t even access. And they’re not, they’re not being intentional about bringing you in. That’s belonging, right? It’s not about, you know, if I wear my head wrap here, are you okay with that?

Like, that’s not what we’re talking about. Good

We’re here together. And we, we both, we all have contributions to make. And, uh, Yeah, the conscious culture being a place where people really want to come to work and want to make those contributions and, and, and they’re received, you know, received in the spirit that they’re given. So thank you.

Randi: And just to connect it to your earlier question around cultural humility, right?

I can’t just have a training. I have to constantly monitor the dynamics in the organization. And be proactive with addressing them because that’s my responsibility, right? As the business owner, as the leader within a business is to say, now that I’m aware of how culture shows up, if, uh, Eleanor has had a journey, that’s a little different.

Then all of the rest of her colleagues on this team, and now she’s at the table. How am I making sure my teams are being very proactive and intentional about cultivating a culture of belonging? So what happens with these acronyms is they become just definitions of something for people. And we often forget that in each of those acronyms, there’s an intentional path we, we take to actually actualize them.

My inclination is to sit in the chair. There were people walking up to me, introducing themselves. I’m now realizing I have to learn how to do that. Cause I don’t do that. I found a chair, it was empty. I ordered some food and I sat there. I would have sat there all night if no one talked to me, but I, that’s not, In the work, especially in the work that I do, it actually requires me to get up and go talk to people.

And that’s often what gets left out of this work. We spend a lot of time educating and building awareness about what those acronyms mean, but we spend less time cultivating practices for individuals to really actualize what that means in practice.

Elinor: Bingo. You just spoke about how conscious leadership and conscious culture meet.

So important. All right. Little, um, lighter here when you are not focused on your work, what do you do to relax? Oh

Randi: my goodness.

Elinor: Um,

Claire: I’m on Randy. I want to know everything. I want to know what’s on your finish watching on Netflix.

Um, also, but when I binge watch something, I like a good Like mystery story, um, where I can’t tell what’s going to happen at the end. I hate knowing what might happen. I hate being able to figure that out. Like I want to be kept on the edge of my seat. Um, and I love horror films. Um, I love them. And I sit here, huh?

I was like, I don’t know. It was like 10 of them in a row and I don’t know the names. I just can tell you what happened. Um, I love them. Like where there’s no happy ending like that. They never find the person like it angers my husband cause he likes like finish and they don’t finish. They just turn off. I love it.

Claire: Oh my, do you know what? I’d never have guessed that, Randy. I would never have guessed that. As we approach, obviously, October into your season, your genre of film, shall we say, I’m sure that the, uh, the networks are going to be supplying copious amounts of terrible horror films for you. I love it. I’d never have guessed that.

I’d never have guessed that in a million years.

Randi: And, and I love vampires. And time period films.

Elinor: Oh, me too.

Randi: Absolutely obsessed with vampires. Like we’ve seen every vampire, good, bad, horrible. I’ve watched it, but I love vampires. I like them a lot. Awesome. That’s awesome.

We always teased him that he was one of the characters that got killed off the soonest. You know, but

Randi: he was there and that’s all that matters. He was there though. He, he, he can say more than we can say. He was actually there. So,

Elinor: Oh, let’s see. Um, when, if you could have dinner with any figure in history, who would it be?

And what questions would you ask? That’s

Randi: my favorite question. I would have dinner with James Baldwin. He is my favorite writer. He’s probably the person I And Meyer second to my adoptive mom. What would I ask him?

And we’ve only come to appreciate that much later. And so I would love. To see what he would say about where we are now

Elinor: and for someone unfamiliar. I mean, what a what a great pick. First of all, but for someone just coming to James Baldwin’s body of work, what would you recommend as an entry point or the first book they should pick up?

It’s a, it’s an older, it’s not, let’s say older, but there was a Baldwin scholar, well known Baldwin scholar where he put together a lot of his stuff into, I am not your Negro. And so you can, you really get a sense of. His perspectives on race relations, and he really believe, though he was critical of race relations.

He really believed that the only way out of this was really to really connect with our shared humanity. And so he, he, he said, this stuff hurts everyone. So it’s everyone’s problem, right? And we all. need to think about it exactly that way, that it’s everybody’s problem

Randi: I am looking forward to meeting more of your conscious. Folks, um, I had a amazing conversation with one or two people. I would love for us to have a conversation like with other people where we’re talking about these concepts together and hearing different people, um, tell us what they’re thinking about that.

Like hearing it from others. Um, yeah, that’s a great idea. Great idea right now.

Elinor: And that’s what we hear from some of the, uh, members when they first join. It’s like, Oh, thank goodness. You know, I’ve been, I’ve been trying to make headway internally inside my organization with bringing certain ideas to the table.

But here’s the support group for it and that’s what we love to function as. So, cool.

Claire: So true. So true.

Elinor: Claire, anything you want to jump back in on, on any of the stuff that we’ve already covered?

I love that, by the way. I absolutely love that about you. But I was just thinking, what would be your proudest achievement? Because you’ve done so much. You’ve had several careers. What would be the thing you go, yeah, man, I did that. And I’m really proud of me.

Randi: If, um, one of the things I think we lost along this journey was an equal and opposite force to how hate shows up in society.

And so I try to be intentional about bringing these conversations to young people. And so if those young people grow up to be activists, then I’ve done my job. That includes my two kids because they are, they are brought along for the ride. Um,

Elinor: The dynamic duo. I’ve had

They are indeed the dynamic duo. So for me, it’s If I leave here and, and it has inspired the next generation to keep these conversations going that they don’t fall into the traditional tenets of capitalism, which is individualism, right? Um, that we start to borrow from cultures, which focused on collective.

And I know Gavin had some of that in his book, which is what kind of drew me in and drew me to him of how he’s thinking about these things. But if we, when we start thinking about, you know, all of what you’re doing around this, as well as everything else happening as a society, if we, we create a generation who is, who, Out the gate is thinking like this.

And that’s that’s what I want. That’s my wish. I don’t think I’ll be here for it. But that’s my wish. And so everything I’m doing is for that to happen. I

Claire: love that for you. Step by

Elinor: step. Common welfare. It’s, it’s, um, and that being more important than any of our, or certainly the Yeah, the field that we all kind of depend on, like the common welfare has to, has to be there, and we have to show concern for it in order for ourselves to be sustained.

Claire: I hope so. I hope so. Randy, you are deeply inspiring and every time, like I said, I’ve heard you speak, I’m like, wow, you blow my socks off.

If people want to connect with you, want to get in touch, um, carry on the conversation, I guess. How is the best way for any of our listeners to get in touch with you?

Randi: Um, I would say reach out to me on LinkedIn. Um, and then I usually, if we want to tap virtual coffee, I send a calendar link. Um, and so you don’t have to sift around and read a long email address.

Just hit me up on LinkedIn. And then I send a link right over and we can connect.

Elinor: Well, that would be such a beneficial thing for, uh, anyone whose ears are perking up at this. to do. And so thanks for inviting people to step forward into the kind of conversations that you’re having. Thank you. Thank you.

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